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The problem is, is that too many sites use flash because it's what's most available now.

As much as it sucks, it's like saying kill Hard Drives now. I don't mind if it becomes available for iPhone cause flash aint going anywhere yet. It's too easy for the average person to throw up a web with flash animation. It's hard o find pre-made or available flash sites. Believe me, I tried. I'm trying to learn to build a Javascript site only. But we needed a site now. I'd love people to see it on the iPhone. But alas they can't. Not till I write my wn damn Javascript version.

I believe we're on our way because of performance reasons. I'm starting to see more and more Javascripted sites and animation. But we got a ways. The mobile revolution just really started. The average person doesn't realize the performance difference between the two. Until you see "download flash player" Fuck you! I aint downloading nothing. F'n Adobe. Hee hee.

I wouldn't mind a Flash Player in iPhone... But when the phone starts bogging down to load a page people will blame the connection not realizing it's a performance issue of software and hardware. When the battery drains o zero, maybe they'll get it?

It's really up to the programmers, but Adobe is one giant muthafucka. Maybe programmers need to stop being lazy? The average person doesn't now what's going on underneath these things. I say give us Flash on the iPhone. Give me the choice of using it or not. It'll be awhile till Flash dies. that's the truth. I hope in 5 years. But to be honest it's gonna take more than the 4 million or so iPhone users to make this become aware. ALOT more. Especially when this "Flash Lite" is being put into windows mobile phones.

We'll see. Adobe and Microsoft won't let it go. But maybe programmers will bring the revolution!

But some of us just starting a business with these pre-made sites would like to be seen in the mean time.

"It's hard o find pre-made or available flash sites"

I meant pre-made javascript sites. Maybe you should design a lego like javascript web design site? Man, that would be a giant undertaking though. I'd love to see a place like tat though. But I guess it's called... Dreamweaver. =)

It's not like saying, "kill Hard Drives now," because it's not a ubiquitous part of the computer. Flash is not even needed by the OS. It's not even really needed by the browser. It's a convenient way of delivering content rich information.

But is that information even "rich?" What is it's main use? Animated ads! Flash movies! Yet, there are altenatives. Ones that are just as equal to the Flash experience and you won't even notice the difference.

One thing about Flash is that it'll increase the size of downloads for the webpage. THe html file may be only 15k, but all the images add up. Add to it Flash and you are probably talking about a couple of 100 K.

That may not sound like much on the desktop but pretty soon we'll be charging a metered rate for our internet and it'll start add up.

On the iphone you're not being charged something until you start roaming. And imagine what that'll cost downloading actual content of flash. I heard that it's gonna be more expensive to roam overseas so Flash on iPhone will add to pricier bills.

Overall, those who want Flash on iPhone or even mobile are deluding themselves. They lived with fast machines. They lived with high speed broadband. All free, but soon there will be a price to pay.

Kill Flash, now! So that we can get some real application development created to ease the burden.

I know that. But the problem is that to many damn sites use it. That's the truth of the matter. You expect Adobe to walk away? No way.

I want flash dead. Believe me. But as of right now it's here. So give me the option of killing the battery and data consumption. I'll just switch it off when not needed. As for roaming... people shouldn't even bother.

As much as I hate, HATE flash. Some people still depend on it. Until website designers take control... give us the control. I don't want to sit around waiting for these programing dudes to change everything in the next couple years.

Performance issues will be enough for web designers to change their ways and move to Javascript. I know that with these new super machines it still taxes but to be honest it's not noticeable enough for the average person. That's why I brought up mobile devices. Thats where people really will understand and see the differences.

I'm sure there's a performance hit on this machine, but shit it doesn't bother me as much. It really doesn't.

We both want flash dead. But I'm just saying in the mean time I wouldn't mind the option. There are many ways to make these websites work like they have using javascript, but there are too many that haven't taken the step yet. That's all I'm saying. Give me an option at least while things evolve to a sleeker more efficient web universe.

Like I said. If there was a javascripted option for our site I would have chose it... but there isn't. I'd like to be able to check on it on my mobile device... but I can't. So what to do? I could hire someone... but once again most use flash and charge a shitload to build one.

I don't think Adobe will walk away. I'm hoping website developers will. Take the choice of Flash away from the developers makes it a dying platform. And that's what I want. I want the developers to look at creating apps for iPhone and saying, "There's no Flash. We'll have to use something else." Force them away from that option and Flash will slowly die. Die, Flash! Die!

But there are alternatives, you have to look at what you want you're site to do. Are you serving up video? Perhaps streaming quicktime? Are you looking for blinking adds. You can do this with animated gifs. They've been doing that for years.

The arguments for Flash on mobile devices are becoming pointless. I haven't heard a good one yet. Games? Video? Ads? What else does Flash allow you to do? What can it do that a good web designer can not do? I don't know, but I just hear critics complain, but I don't know what they need it for?